Keyu Jin: China’s Economy, Tariffs, Trade, Trump, Communism & Capitalism | Lex Fridman Podcast #477
Keyu Jin is an economist specializing in China’s economy, international macroeconomics, global trade imbalances, and financial policy. She is the author of The New China Playbook: Beyond Socialism and Capitalism.
Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep477-sb
See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc.
*Transcript:*
https://lexfridman.com/keyu-jin-transcript
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*EPISODE LINKS:*
Keyu’s X: https://x.com/KeyuJin
Keyu’s Website: https://keyujin.com/
The New China Playbook (Book): https://amzn.to/4lpgmyK
*SPONSORS:*
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*OUTLINE:*
0:00 – Introduction
0:47 – Misconceptions about China
5:17 – Education in China
14:34 – Economic reforms of Deng Xiaoping
19:53 – Mayor economy and GDP growth race
33:40 – Growing up in China
39:18 – First time in the US
43:32 – China’s government vs business sector
47:06 – Communism and capitalism
50:45 – Jack Ma
56:58 – China’s view on innovation and copying ideas
1:03:35 – DeepSeek moment
1:07:29 – CHIPS Act
1:09:16 – Tariffs and Trade
1:21:41 – Immigration
1:26:28 – Taiwan
1:32:14 – One-child policy
1:40:11 – China’s economy collapse predictions
1:44:54 – Advice for visiting China
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@lexfridman
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep477-sa
See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc.
0:00 – Introduction
0:47 – Misconceptions about China
5:17 – Education in China
14:34 – Economic reforms of Deng Xiaoping
19:53 – Mayor economy and GDP growth race
33:40 – Growing up in China
39:18 – First time in the US
43:32 – China's government vs business sector
47:06 – Communism and capitalism
50:45 – Jack Ma
56:58 – China's view on innovation and copying ideas
1:03:35 – DeepSeek moment
1:07:29 – CHIPS Act
1:09:16 – Tariffs and Trade
1:21:41 – Immigration
1:26:28 – Taiwan
1:32:14 – One-child policy
1:40:11 – China's economy collapse predictions
1:44:54 – Advice for visiting China
Transcript:
https://lexfridman.com/keyu-jin-transcript
CONTACT LEX:
Feedback – give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey
AMA – submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama
Hiring – join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring
Other – other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact
EPISODE LINKS:
Keyu's X: https://x.com/KeyuJin
Keyu's Website: https://keyujin.com/
The New China Playbook (Book): https://amzn.to/4lpgmyK
SPONSORS:
To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts:
Allio Capital: AI-powered investment app that uses global macroeconomic trends.
Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/allio_capital-ep477-sa
UPLIFT Desk: Standing desks and office ergonomics.
Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/uplift_desk-ep477-sa
Hampton: Community for high-growth founders and CEOs.
Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/hampton-ep477-sa
Lindy: No-code AI agent builder.
Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/lindy-ep477-sa
LMNT: Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix.
Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/lmnt-ep477-sa
@imflikyt
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
Whenever she's going to say something that could be critical of China you can see her slowing down and choosing her words very carefully, and that tells you all you need to know about the CCP and how "free" China actually is
@MeYou-f7u
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
She is very articulate, persuasive, but only address topics surface level. She said that the West have the wrong impression that one man runs the country, no we have the impression that the CCP party run the country with one man in charge. No free election to change the party, he's like an emperor seated for life unless there's internal party strife.
@jrmrmc
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
Nice propaganda
@gingerreaddick8489
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
What about Christian persecution and the government harvesting organs of political enemies?
@enricociprian2723
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
A fascinating and insightful conversation, Keyu Jin really is on another level, all because she bridges both major economies, the US having lived and studied there, and China where here roots and intimate knowledge are.
Also her age or generation, bridging from her parents time and now to the youth generation, she sits in the middle of both, and she's lived through one of the most transformative periods in recent history.
She's easy to listen to, doesn't articulate in economic jargon, and Lex is equally inquisitive and without the common confrontational style of many other podcasters.
I do hope that both the central power players in China and the US are listening and learning, because she has a lot of rational perspective to offer.
I will revisit this again, and hope to see China for myself as a tourist in the near future.
👍🙏
@stevencook5501
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
From my narrow point of observation, this discussion has unacknowledged impediments. The first impediment that I see is the failure to account for individual human integrity. So, let me explicate what I see as having been implicated.
Let's start with the language we are using. The above interview was/is being conducted in English. I'm writing in English. Other comments are almost entirely in English. Second, we are discussing human interactions focused on a model of "exchanges of goods" that implies "markets ."
So, we're talking China and the United States in the context of markets and governments.However, we're not talking at all about these matters in the context of English global colonization and the ravages that apartide culture imposed upon those of us having this conversation.
Points if interest: "Worlds Apart", by J.C. Agnew, and "The White Slaves of England " published 1856; now in the public domain.🙏
@lorrytang3337
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
such a high quality episode!! Thanks!!
@kl12345-u
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
Being Chinese American, grew up in Shanghai and immigrated to New York with family at 16 in the early 2000s, I have similar background like the guest, a mix of both eastern and western education and culture.
I consider myself fortunate to be an American, and part of MAGA, the Lady is reasonable but still sugar coating China, For obvious reasons we understand, she can't talk about the real things that's going on under the table nowadays, she has to go with mostly official narratives as part of the CCP mouthpiece. Her background matches that of a Chinese rich Beijing elite class… Mine is a commoner grassroot, family suffered from Culture Revolution, yet self made hardworking American dream Chinese immigrants class…
The China nowadays under Xi Jinping is not the same when I grew up in. China is now an feudal nation ruled by an Emperor. Consider China has gone backwards of thousands of years in the past decade. On the surface, the infrastructure the cities the buildings looks modern and nice, but deep down the mentality of the people, the software, is lower and dragging… if you know what I mean, so brainwashed by the party's nationalism and hate toward the West propaganda. That's why you see the Chinese nowadays are less mannered, arrogant, and most of them completely unaware of how the West perceived the image of China from the outside, because the Chinese has been living in their grand illusion of a proud China power as an imperialist. This bad energy cycle created by the elites to concentrate more power, also increases more racism & hate towards Asians after COVID… Truly sad…
No longer meritocracy based like before under Deng Xiaoping, entrepreneurs that made it now are princlings and elites ruling class family, not commoners… No IP rights, even big like Jack Ma, can be gone just by one order of the emperor, if he doesn't play well in the power game…. No lawsuits or any self legal defense way like in US. You & your family can lose everything & even be dead overnight, nobody would even know… she didn't go into the detail about unemployment rate among young people, and the suicidal rate in youths.
There's no doubt the Chinese leaders would do anything to stay in power, and just like psycho Mao, the Bureaucrat elites would not hesitate to eliminate their own to keep more power, let along even give a damn about any foreigners. Chinese man has this thousands years of culture obsession of being in power, being the emperor it's the ultimate dream deep down to an insane degree that most westerners can comprehend …
@alexanderpushkin9160
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
Очень интересно и познавательно, без про/анти-китайской пропаганды.
@DilnozAbidinova
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
I love this podcast 🎉
@HP-bs9em
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
It would be great if Lex can go to China and make some podcast there
@geoffbell7627
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
This is CCP propaganda at it's worst … or maybe best. So many things wrong with this interview. But let's deal with two.
1) China is not a communist or a capitalist economy. It's a fascist economy. Beijing doesn't obsess over shoe or carrot production. But it definitely obsesses over key industries and priorities … and who gets those opportunities. (For of those you who don't understand, listen to Lex's interview with Marc Andressen. That's what the Biden regime was up to with AI and crypto. It was going to pick who could compete. And it's how they lost many Silicon Valley titans. It's fascism.)
2) The part on Jack Ma is just embarrassing. Ant was no threat to the Chinese financial system. The liquidity problems were created by the CCP — particularly Jin's "innovative mayors" — pushing endless construction projects and forcing state owned banks to make the loans. The punishment of Ant and Tencent was Xi pulling a Putin … letting businessmen know he'd kneecap them if they posed a threat.
Btw, this is why just about Chinese billionaire houses their family in the Bay Area or Vancouver. There's no rule of law in China other than what the party says the day it says it. And as long as that's how the country runs, businessmen will pick the low hanging fruit, but there will be little innovation. And all the data shows that, not what this lady is spouting.
@lukelota4385
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
One of the best!👌🏼
@ratnakamal1
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
CONFUSIONISM vs. JUDEOCHRISTIANITY
Confusionism emphasizes individual behavior of righteousness and obedience for the greater purpose of social order and harmony. Judeochristian approach is more individualistic. How to be moral person, less emphasis on one's social duty as in Confusionism.
@ratnakamal1
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
In China, people compete as individuals, the Government or the Communist Party channels efforts of the individuals for the social benefit without smothering them. So, China is not a free for all American system, or a smothering regulatory one as in the E. U. Keyu Jin makes a compelling case for the Chinese system without being an apologist or a propagandist.
@ratnakamal1
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
Jin says that deference to authority is not blind submission. This deference has its roots in the ancient Confusian Philosophy that is still a part of China despite years of communist rule.
@ratnakamal1
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
Wonder if the GOI can rope in Jin for discussions!
@SilenzioDiEsistenza
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
The belief that innovation comes from capitalism is no different than the rat believing cheese is created by pushing a button. Nor is innovation the cause of the dopamine kick.
Todays innovation is tomorrows trash.
You need to take a scientific approach to this, inductive. Your base assumptions are wrong. Your perception of causality, driven by preassumptions given by educators and politicians.
Also innovation is not undirected in the US. its driven by market logic, and preferences of financial benefactors
I came up with a "brilliant" innovative quote: "Consumer capitalism, at its core, is a giant, inefficient, and destructive dopamine delivery system"
@Flyshooter2
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
I’d love to hear a Lex Friedman review of your life growing up in USSR compare and contract communism for Americans. They need to learn.
@Flyshooter2
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
Meanwhile companies are fleeing China. Much of it was because of the digital oppression but tariffs put them over the edge.
@Chevyno10
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
Communism/Socialism has been demonised by the west. In reality, for a population like China, it is a better system than Democracy. China's incredible growth and stability, lifting 800 MILLION families out of poverty and into working class/middle class, is unprecedented in history. China will be the most powerful nation in the world soon. Democracy would NEVER have achieved that in China
@zenlei8258
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
China rise was supported by Wall Street elite greed.
Why US never give India to export to US tariff free , if US need India help to contain China ?
China was invited to join the US Dollar regime in order to create continuous strong economy growth from 2000-2018.
No country in the world can have strong economic growth without joining the Dollar regime sponsor by US.
By joining the DOLLAR regime China get to export to US tariff free or very less tariff and so China export to US increased dramatically.
China is the only country in the world that get the privilege to export to US tariff free or very less tariffed.
Any country that can export to the biggest consumer markets in the world USA, paying zero tariffs, and earn 100s billion trade surplus every year, can be a success.
Taiwan, Thailand, Phippines, Japan , Turkey , Egypt etc. are all strong allies of US but never get the privilege to export to US paying zero tariffs. Strange isn't it ? Why ?
@jasongibbons3913
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
She is very well spoken, great episode!
@jasongibbons3913
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
She's a great spokesperson for the CCP! Come on Lex you are smarter than this!
@jasongibbons3913
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
Great interview
@phil88
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
Larry had no chance of getting in bed with her again according to Epstein 😂
@bigleo4187
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
I’d like to attend a summit on U.S.–China economic relations moderated by Professor Jin Keyu, featuring former U.S. Treasury Secretary Larry Summers and former Chinese Finance Minister Jin Liqun and I’d like to learn about their individual perspectives on family values—particularly their thoughts on concepts such as fatherly love.
@haoruchen4216
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
Keyu isn’t in a good place now, with her husband a economic fugitive escaped China. A ruthless car salesman who is bankrupt but used her family’s influence to con investment.
@wenxue7933
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
Who can help me to understand the host’ s body language? This swiveling from the beginning to the end is a sign of disengagement? boredom? Power imbalance? Nervous habit?
@linjason5893
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
😂😂😂how ironic
@JackBoschLandProfitGenerator
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
Host seems stoned or severely jet lagged
@89th2nd
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
She so flawlessly contradicts herself – china is a meritocracy but you don’t want to stand out – in simple words, you can stand out till a limit is reached and then your excess is cut
@Yackadaisical
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
lol Lex needs better people to screen his guests
@lukenguyen249
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
a lot of guys in China go to jail today because of her lmao
@gustavmoller3737
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
So everybody gangsta until you start speaking about politics and create an opinion of your own.
@cwlo-yo6fz
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
I think Prof Jin is the logical and natural successor of Prof Paul Samuelson of MIT. 🪵 🪵
🪵🪵🪵🪵🪵🪵🪵 🔚😡😁😁😁😁
@franck777
June 7, 2026 at 12:01 am
great!
Comments are closed.