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Was Socrates Real or a Creation of Plato?

Philosophy Tube | January 18, 2026



Could the famous Ancient Greek philosopher have been totally made up, or are Plato, Xenophon, and Aristophanes accurate?
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Comments

This post currently has 33 comments.

  2. @glitterishhh

    January 18, 2026 at 3:44 pm

    if I wanted to establish myself as the preeminent philosopher of my time, it might be a good idea to invent a brilliant fictional personal mentor who was always winning every argument in my works (who, for some reason, never wrote any works himself), and then kill off that fictional mentor, leaving me as the de facto successor to the wisest person in the world

  3. @emanueladavis1885

    January 18, 2026 at 3:44 pm

    The ROMANS….THE FLAVIAN DYNASTY THE PISO'S DID A LOT OF WRITING AND RE-WRITING OF HISTORY. THEY made up people and even paid for busts to be made up so that in future when people found them they would consider them to have been real people. Julius Caesar was the son in law of Arrius Kalpurnius Piso and he had the Library (many libraries) of Alexandria crated up and sent by ship to Arrius K. Piso's Villas across Italy. Is it any wonder they could re-write history under many thousands of Alias/Penn names. The Vatican has all of that from the libraries that the Romans stole from nations they conquered. The Piso's wrote The New TEstaament as a PLAY first off….the whole family were writing under alias names, including Pliny the younger who wrote as St. Paul and Seneca who was a relative of the Piso's including Marcus Aurelius (as VERUS) Penn name of course.

  4. @trashboat2687

    January 18, 2026 at 3:44 pm

    What if he was real, minus all the philosophical stuff. They just found a bum and used him as a face to push the philosophical questions in order to avoid persecution like the Socrates in the Apology had faced

  11. @bassem500

    January 18, 2026 at 3:44 pm

    I disagree with your assertion "it does not matter if Socrates is real or not". If more than one person used a fictional Socrates in their tellings, then Socrates' Philosophy is defined by the intentions of those narrators ( philosophers ) towards this character. Then talking of the Philosophy of Socrates becomes meaningless and it is futile to make any sense to try to piece together his philosophy from the writings of others. Socrates philosophy would, at best, reflect what the authors who mention him think. Think of Batman and the different takes different artists presented us with.

  13. @jesusisgod2953

    January 18, 2026 at 3:44 pm

    To whom shall I speak, and give warning, that they may hear? He that has ears to hear, let him hear.

    Are you saved? Where will you go when you die? Heaven or hell?

    The Gospel, which means the Good News is the news that God Almighty, the Creator came in the flesh as Jesus Christ to take away the sin of the world. The one God is a trinity of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Son came and laid down his own life to save ours. His sacrifice on the cross paid the price for our redemption with his own blood. On the third day he rose from dead and offers the gift of salvation and forgiveness to those that repent and trust in him. Although God's creation was created perfect, having no death, sickness and disease, the creation became corrupted through Adam and Eve in them disobeying God. In this rebellion the creation became fallen through the curse of sin and mankind became separated from God. This world is fallen, but God offers reconciliation to him through his provision at the cross. Ultimately God will restore his creation to perfection when he returns but those that who reject his offer of redemption will remain condemned by their sins and go to hell.

    John 1:1,14 KJV
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD. [14] And THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, and dwelt among us,

    1 John 3:8 KJV
    He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

    Isaiah 9:6 KJV
    For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty GOD, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    John 1:10 KJV
    He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and THE WORLD KNEW HIM NOT.

  14. @jesusisgod2953

    January 18, 2026 at 3:44 pm

    2 Peter 3:5-10 KJV
    For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: [6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: [7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. [8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. [9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. [10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

  15. @jeffryphillipsburns

    January 18, 2026 at 3:44 pm

    If Socrates were a mathematician rather than a philosopher, then I would agree that it might not matter whether he actually existed, but it seems to me that historical context is an important part of our understanding of philosophy, especially of philosophy two and one-half millennia old. Shakespeare, by the way, strikes me as a pretty poor analogy for the argument. Shakespeare lived long enough ago that some of his language presents difficulties for modern readers and audiences. Indeed, there are passages in Shakespeare that even Shakespearean scholars find obscure, as well as terms that seem to have been coined by Shakespeare himself. Williams Shakespeare was a commoner with a grammar-school education, whereas Edward De Vere (the current favorite substituting for Francis Bacon among Shakespearean conspiracy enthusiasts) was a nobleman who might have been expected to employ a different sort of vocabulary and to make different metaphorical or literary allusions. The distinction should indeed affect our understanding of the plays.

  19. @adamedgar5765

    January 18, 2026 at 3:44 pm

    Socrates is unlikely to be anything more than a character made up by Plato. However, if aethists want to argue Plato and xenophobes are enough evidence for the existence of Socrates, then it 100% given Jesus existed as well. There are far more authors writings about Jesus than Socrates.

  21. @maxdonaldson861

    January 18, 2026 at 3:44 pm

    But if Beethoven wasn't real, and the person who actually wrote his work wasn't an emotional wreck whose father was very cruel to him, who couldn't get laid and went deaf from Napoleon's canons and tried to express this suffering through his music, but instead was a slightly autistic lesbian abused by the husband she was practically sold to then the suffering expressed in the music would be the suffering of someone who suffered not indirectly from others and afrom the unkind nature of reality but from the direct, intentional actions of a specific person and who struggled to understand other people in general, then someone who plays their music should give a different interpretation in order to accurately express the true emotions portrayed by the music. I believe that the same would go for actors (unless the playwright wrote their play about someone else's experiences but nevertheless, context is still relevant) and for philosophers. It matters that Kant, a moral philosopher, was a huge racist and we should interpret his work differently because of that and it would be unfair on non-white people to "just take the good bits" from his work since he was also an anthropologist, and who knows what about Socrates' life could allow us to see his philosophy in a different light?

  26. @Kuudere-Hime

    January 18, 2026 at 3:44 pm

    In Aristophanes other plays about commentary historical people he doesn't use their real name. So in that context I feel if his "Socrates" was a real person, it's not someone actually named that. However I think it's more likely that the character of Socrates was a construct to express his general feelings on Sophists. Then Xenophon and Plato decided to flip that character's reputation.

  32. @lfredoMoraes

    January 18, 2026 at 3:44 pm

    On the Existence of Socrates

    It is strange that some people said that Socrates did not exist. For there is in truth an immensity of testimonies about Socrates not only of his contemporaries but also of thinkers and scholars who lived thereafter. Among the contemporaries we have his disciples who wrote several works. Disciples such as Plato, Xenophon, Phaedo, Antisthenes, Euclid, Cármides, Cebes, Simias and many others, in short, there were a large number of followers and friends. Already on the preserved works of these disciples we have mainly the dialogues of Plato and the work Ditos and Made Memorable of Socrates written by Xenophon. Among the non-disciples contemporaneous with Socrates there is the testimony of comedy authors who had the habit of ridiculing public or famous figures in their plays. Some fragments of the old Greek comedy have been preserved, as well as an entire work of the comediógrafo Aristophanes called The Clouds where the main personage is the same Socrates satirizado by the author. Aristotle, on the other hand, also speaks about Socrates in his works. Also the biographer Plutarch, author of Parallel Lives, speaking of Greek and Roman personalities, quotes in his books Socrates and among the Romans we have Cicero to write the following about the philosopher: "Socrates was the first to invite Philosophy to descend from heaven and installed it even in the homes and imposed the study of life, customs, good things and more. " Therefore, it is strange that they did not believe in the existence of Socrates.

    Still others say that Socrates did not exist because we have no written works of his own. Now, I ask: does the person only exist if he writes a book? Does anyone who has ever stepped on this earth leave here a written work to prove that he lived? These are simple questions, I know; but are consistent with the doubt of those who do not believe in the existence of Socrates in view of the simplicity of the argument they express.

    Finally, some say that Socrates was simply a character of Plato. In part it is possible to agree with these words, for Plato, in his works, having Socrates as main character, used the philosopher's name to express some of his own ideas. It is natural, with the development of his own studies, that Plato has come up with his own ideas. Therefore, sometimes in late works and maturity, we see Socrates quoting Platonic ideas. However, this, IN any way, amounts to saying that Socrates did not exist. In the same way no one will believe or defend the inexistence of Julio Cesar, Antônio or Cleopatra because they were used as characters in Shakespeare's plays.

  33. @zeitgeist5134

    January 18, 2026 at 3:44 pm

    A suggestion for a Philosophy Tube episode: You would be doing a great public service if you were to debunk the reputation of Socrates as a secular saint. To prepare your assault on Socrates, I suggest that you read “The Trial of Socrates’, in which the revered American journalist, I. F. Stone, presents the case for the prosecution. It is a damning critique, and a necessary corrective, as well as a lucid, thoroughly researched work of historical analysis.

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