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The Levels of Consciousness Psychiatry Denies | Brian Stafford

Essentia Foundation | August 22, 2026



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Brian Stafford, MD, is a psychiatrist, board member and training director at the Animas Valley Institute, the organization founded by depth psychologist Bill Plotkin PhD and known for its work on nature-based human development. In this conversation with Hans Busstra, Stafford reflects on his remarkable transition from a successful academic career in psychiatry to guiding wilderness-based practices aimed at what he calls an “eco-awakening”: a shift from an ego-centric to an eco-centric mode of consciousness.

Drawing on the work of Plotkin, Carl Jung, and his own clinical and personal experience as a wilderness guide, Stafford argues that many forms of psychological suffering are rooted in a deeper ecological disconnection. Rather than viewing the psyche primarily through the lens of pathology and symptom reduction, he proposes that psychiatry should recover a richer understanding of the psyche as a living reality embedded within both nature and the symbolic life of dreams, imagination, and meaning.

For more info Brian’s work at the Animas Valley Institute: https://www.animas.org/guides/42/brian-stafford-md-mph/
Bill Plotkin’s book Soulcraft: https://www.animas.org/books/soulcraft/

Thanks to the OPEN Foundation for facilitating this interview and their recording of Stafford’s presentation at ICPR ’26
https://open-foundation.org/
https://icpr-conference.com

00:00 Introduction
02:02 Brian Stafford’s calling to leave psychiatry
08:04 A wilderness vision and “welcome home”
13:21 Why we lose our connection with nature
15:17 What is an eco-awakening?
18:10 Can everyone experience eco-awakening—and how do psychedelics relate?
19:45 Jung’s relationship with nature
22:14 Does nature literally speak to us?
25:42 Visionary states and “more real than real” experience
26:55 What happens during a ceremonial wilderness fast?
30:03 Dying to your former identity
32:31 Support the Essentia Foundation
33:43 Soul, ego, and the three worlds of consciousness
37:11 The ego after a soul encounter
40:11 From persona to a deeper calling
44:37 Why so many people feel stuck—and turn to psychedelics
49:25 Caterpillars, transformation, and answering the call
52:39 Must we descend to soul before ascending to spirit?
53:27 How Western society suppresses human development
59:06 Is the wilderness quest a privilege?
1:03:15 Training guides and the meaning of the wounded healer
1:08:18 Masculine, feminine, anima, and wholeness
1:13:25 Integrating soul and spirit—and learning across traditions
1:17:39 Fear, disillusionment, and leaving psychiatry
1:20:21 Why psychiatry needs a new model of human development
1:22:21 Closing remarks
1:23:00 Brian’s full presentation at the ICPR ’26 conference

© 2026 Essentia Foundation. All rights on interview content reserved.

Written by Essentia Foundation

Comments

This post currently has 44 comments.

  1. @extavwudda

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    I don't know why, but the interviewer's long windedness, use of filler phrases such as "kind of" and "like" and his pronunciation of the silent 'p' in terms like psychiatry and psychedelics, gets on my nerves way more than it should.

    What is he teaching me?

  2. @wmgodfrey1770

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    Ritual Process AND Ritual Eldership. Prof Dr Robert L Moore talked, wrote, and cited lots of key sources – ancient, medieval, modernity and FROM recent decades of those journeying TOWARDS awakening, enlightening, and enSoulment.

  3. @piotr780

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    What does this really have to do with psychiatry? Psychiatry is primarily a medical discipline concerned with mental disorders, diagnosis, treatment, and the reduction of suffering. It is not supposed to provide a complete theory of human development, self-fulfillment, spirituality, meaning, or our relationship with nature.
    So when we say that "psychiatry suppresses" or "denies" these dimensions, it seems to me that we may be confusing psychiatry with Western culture more broadly. If modern Western society neglects ecological connectedness, spirituality, symbolic life, or certain forms of human development, that may well be worth criticizing – but why attribute that specifically to psychiatry?
    Of course psychiatry has its own limitations, blind spots, and institutional dysfunctions, as virtually every social system does. But that is different from saying that psychiatry is somehow responsible for defining the whole range of healthy human development.

  4. @wmgodfrey1770

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    MetaCrisis of the Poly-Crises! We're traveling THRU territory never before seen, experienced, lived, AND just how to respond to IT is the main issue… Bcuz there are no solutions nor fixes. For the Human Civilizational Super-Organism, THIS is the mother of all challenges of our time ⏰, our life 🧬, our Kairos Moment. Hence, the moral Imperative is…

  5. @kaptankannaroo6954

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    The man featured in the link, Brian Stafford, is my doppelganger opposite.

    He is the rich, successful version.

    I am the humble shaman replica.

    Yet, we practice and preach the same pairing of Shamanism, Jung and psychedelics.

    Leaning in on active imagination, as we all did naturally as children of wonder — he, Jung and I — feel the lure of nature that nurtures the soul.

    He gave up a lucrative career as an endowed psychiatrist and was abandoned by his peers as an outcast for being critical of their methodology.

    I was accidentally hit by a truck at the peak of my senior systems analyst career and forcibly disabled by resulting PTSD.

    I became a backyard hops farmer.

    He now teaches eco-consciousness in nature retreats, combining it with psychedelics, to encourage the hero's journey to emotional self-regulation.

    At 73, I begin each new day in the active imagination mindset that I recall when I was 6-7ish, all alone in my neighborhood, as a boy in the act of discovery.

    Today I rarely leave my double-wide and yet I am satisfied.

    Every day, another adventure into the unknown on YouTube.

    I am an elder shaman today who drums to enter the trance state.

    And finds comfort in the upper realm with Emmanuel and Sophia, my spirit guides.

    He is Jesus, known by many names.

    She is the ephemeral feminine embodiment of divine wisdom.

    Brian says he longs to become me one day, an elder, with heart.

    I am a patient advocate for the sojourner experience to be adopted by the New Mexico Medical Psilocybin Act program presently under development.

    I long to help others like me find wellness, just as I did.

    But it is a battle against the sojourner, to build a business model instead that puts profit before patients’ needs.

    Brian and I both are fighting systemic methods that limit eco-consciousness healing to only those who can afford it.

    I wonder, shouldn't we collaborate?

    He is now shunned by his former professional peers as "disillusioned."

    To me, it is a courageous step, to choose to step away from your identity for any reason — and rarely done by anyone — willingly.

    I am an old shaman drummer without a tribe to play for.

    We both know our authentic selves as a result of our severance from the default mode network.

    What could two opposites possibly offer to one another in this realm?

    Uncertainty is not always unpleasant to imagine.

    Why did this specific video appear now in my YT feed?

    Synchronicity perhaps?

    It is well-worth exploring, along my journey to wholeness, to find out.

    For five years I've documented my journey with the mushroom and Carl Jung.

    I think I sense an excerpt coming.

    Like finding a message in a bottle on a deserted island beach.

    I see a note inside.

    What does it say?

    Spoiler; the message is confirmation that what I've accomplished is equivalent to that of my highly accomplished doppelganger's.

    Whether we meet or not, the message sent was for my benefit.

    Inspiring confidence that I am on the path with heart.

    My journey humbles me, often.

    Praise Emmanuel.

    It's unlikely that I will ever really meet my doppelganger.

    But I can imagine it.

    Jung says the man who imagined it first, built the Brooklin Bridge.

    Active Imagination makes magic happen.

    It is, after all, the reason for the journey.

  6. @Vangoz-V

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    I sort of lost the touch with my soul when I became an adult, say after I turned 20. Before that, I was lucky to have very open minded parents that let me grow wild, yet giving me a solid sense of ethics. The biggest gift I received was the possibility to grow my childhood wandering for a month a year on an extremely rich sea full of marine life and have a complete human-free hill as a playground, with my curious older brother as a guide illuminating me to the wonders of Nature. After that time this Eldorado got ruined by humanity and life asked me to reduce my free time for holidays. Regardless, when I encounter people mentioning medidation and having meetings in a room to do that, I know how lucky I was to wildly medidate by miself all alone with half my body immerged in the sea water at sunset with little gentle waves caddling me in the process, or sat on the top of the hill looking at the sky and sea melting on each other with the horizon as the only limit to infinity, or, most emotionally, waking up in the middle of the night and admiring with tears in my eyes to a star bright sky, with the Milky Way majestically crossing it. The professor of this interview rightly stated that you may find connection with the World by yourself, not necessarily out of teaching. I believe that I had it but lost it, except for very rare moments when I can sense the Universe again, but sadly very, very rare. Much better than none though. I tried to counteract homologation of modern western life all over my existence and, if I am a professor myself now, I know I reached it out of exercising my immagination despite being surrounded by standardization. I was gifted, I know, and I thank the randomess of our Universe for allowing me to be such a lucky child. Greetings to everyone

  7. @snookums475

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    I’m surprised that you gave this Spiritual Narcissist a platform on your channel. To me your guest comes across as a Spiritual Narcissist. Strange that you would entertain this self centred gentleman. Discernment is everything.

  8. @jonasgoog375

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    If you don't listen to the calling – first you loose passion for what you been doing and if you keep resisting it comes to physical symptoms like clinching your teeth and overall stress and finally sickness and physical shutdown.
    It is scary to take the leap and I been in couraged by dreams in plane speech that I am looked after and guided by the soul.
    Still there is no blueprint, which validates that it is genuine, and the safe route does not cut it, so you have to trust and burn your personality in trials, knowing that one can never fall out of the arms of the universe.
    Your path is yours alone and you will be discouraged by your surroundings because you show there is another way.
    Still, one can not see the steps, and one is lost and alone, that is when you hand you self to the universe surrendering any notion of knowing about the world and trust. My suffering is still not big enough to take the leap but it'll be done.

  9. @Aurumferrum

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    Why do I feel myself cringing a little while listening to this? Maybe I'm projecting but I feel like there's something performative or insincere about this guest? Not sure what it is, just trying to understand my reaction. Generally I'm into the topic of soul, spirit, self understanding, Jung etc.

  10. @linadukstaite558

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    Dutch can’t help themselves and good thing to make to psychedelics. Just poor evil. You don’t need any medication to be awake, you need to go to nature … but Dutch just can’t help themselves

  11. @nellytchilingirova8645

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    You are welcome to come to Bulgaria and you will see the deep mystical connection with the mystery to the memory consciousness Builded in a Braine of nation by creation,people borne here , especially around some areas of Rodopa mountains have this experiences and practiced with strange music , rhythm,dances ..etc .
    Come and deeper the topic in God,s naturally given talented to BULGARIEN and you will feel and have this the same consciousness that you are talking in the interview .
    Thank you ❤

  12. @Improvethnicjazz

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    So many internet hosts need this advice to succeed: Shhhhh… “um, mmm, yeah,”tend to be annoying. Let your guests be heard. Good luck sir, but I can’t stay… you’re simply too distracting.

  13. @az0th__

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    It’s difficult not to be skeptical about an organisation like this. Does it not seem a bit cult like? Some sort of spiritual escapism into the wilderness? Modernity and suffering still exists for millions of people but the people who live in the US or have the means visit have to chance to find their ecological niche through ‘soul initiation’. I guess it’s easier for the people who’s ecological niche is to sell the shovels of spiritual progression than the people who are lost and looking for some meaning

  14. @stairway11

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    Brian. You are a gem of light. Thank you for your journey, and your skill at sharing the truth of your learning to all of us.

    Thank you to this channel for such beautiful, insightful and thoughtful content. You guys are doing amazing work. This is such a gift 💝

  15. @Beederda

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    So the voice called out and said “what do you want” i laughed and said “let’s go on a bad trip” and laid back in my bed watching the roof squirm around it later spoke again “you are going to die, and it’s incurable” this never scared me at all i new one of two things are about to happen end to this suffering or ego death both things i was at ease with and the rest is going pretty good after refining whatever this is that remains after that trip going on 5 years now and my awareness is ever sharp from that experience. I went through a insane transformation thereafter that i probably should figure out how to write a book about cause it doesn’t make sense how one trip changed me soo much to where i am today

  16. @HalReynolds-c6v

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    It’s been awhile, Essentia foundation. Admittedly, I’ve not kept up like I did in months past. The state of the world and its chaos has sucked me in, and away from my deeper pursuits.
    This video may be a timely return, as I’m currently working through Jung’s “Memories, Dreams, Reflections”

  17. @sheilahennessy7440

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    Philoman was an internal guide of Carl Jung…Jung was worried that he was mentally ill, because this spirit guide had antlers, long white hair and dressed in a dark robe…Jung had great discussions with him…

  18. @shiftedperception369

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    ​This is hands down one of my favorite interviews on this channel. Dr. Brian Stafford articulates exactly what is broken in modern Western culture and mainstream psychiatry, while pointing to the solutions we desperately need at this critical turning point in history.
    ​Instead of using pharmaceuticals to numb and suppress raw emotion just so people can function within an unhealthy system, we should be supporting individuals through natural grief and dark nights of the soul. Conventional psychiatry places temporary bandages on symptoms rather than healing the root cause. It’s deeply frustrating to see how many people have been emotionally blunted, harmed, or stalled by long-term antidepressant use.
    ​I’m so glad entheogenic and psychedelic medicines are finally getting the recognition they deserve. They offer a legitimate path forward where conventional psychiatric drugs have failed so many. Please bring Dr. Stafford back for a Part 2 to dive even deeper into this—there is so much more ground to cover!

  19. @kriskrash4961

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    The heart even isn't what they describe it as. It's not a "pump". It doesn't just slosh the blood around. The "mechanics" are much more complex.

    Same with the brain and that essential interaction between the heart and the brain. More of a spiral exchange, with the ability to project and receive simultaneously, to whatever degree is necessary, beginning with survival. (Not singing and dancing. There is time for that.)

    It's as simple a synchronization as the sort one makes when they prepare to sing in the choir; stretching out the neck, expanding the lungs … centering in the solar plexus, and grounding that exchange in the diaphragm. It serves a directly tangible function for such activities. Wind instruments are another. That's why suizen is such a healthy form of meditation.

    Don't stay grounded in your lowest organs. That is where babies, small children, young adults, (and overgrown adults) are focused, but for different reasons.

    And, with regard to the practice, it must be done not only during the session, but as a constant maintenance, throughout the day. Call it "chakra alignment" or whatever you want, but that gets you in the very same neighborhood, physically, mentally … spiritually. From there, you need to prioritize your other connections and that exchange, beginning with family. Then friends, acquaintances … maybe a certain teacher. You may even want to limit the intensity of one exchange or the other, rather than constantly balancing them out, depending on how healthy the relationship is. You may want to disengage from some people entirely, and let those connections fade into that sort of communal background which remains connected regardless; neither deliberately projecting or receiving any sort of magnetic buzz like that.

    it can actually be very destabilizing, at first, like giving up an addiction. But, you will defragment and regain your balance, so that you're no longer just stumbling through the life experience. You just have to keep doing it.

    But, as a simple practice to integrate the exchange into your everyday life, as a habit, you can think of it like that. Like preparing to sing in a choir. Animals do it all the time. Think of starling murmurations. People have all but forgotten due to any number of elaborate distractions they encounter. Psychedelics often try to remind us. Most people aren't looking that closely, however.

    It isn't that difficult, or I'd write a book. "Rabita for Dummies". It begins with yourself. ✨️👌

  20. @lhjrim

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    I heard a voice like that almost 20 years ago. The same sentence twice and it turned out the exact way it said. It is a miracle as its probability was so low. I have pursued spiritualities ever since. Now everything converges together and I feel I am becoming everything. Honestly this experiment was never expected and incredible as well.

  21. @ShareeMonique

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    My goodness. I’ve heard a voice three separate times. And it frightened the heck out of me. I started questioning my sanity. It took a few days for me to come back to reality. Not only did I hear a voice, I started to intuitively know things. I’d know when someone was about to knock on the door or, if someone was about to text me. It freaked me out.

  22. @mousumimukerji4075

    August 22, 2026 at 10:26 pm

    Wonderful. Seems like Brian and Bill are speaking thé tantric view from Eastern traditions (Hindu, Buddhist). It’s all about connection and relationship. All of creation is in relationship to every aspect of itself

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