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Time & Mind: Was Einstein Wrong About Time?

Essentia Foundation | October 26, 2024



The role of time in mainstream physics—as it arises in Newtonian theory, relativity theory, quantum theory, and the 2nd law of thermodynamics—is relatively well understood. However, there is a profound mystery concerning the passage of time associated with consciousness. Many physicists maintain that this passage is purely a feature of mind, going beyond physics itself, while others argue that it points to some new physical paradigm, perhaps associated with the marriage of relativity theory and quantum theory. Certainly, the status of time in any final theory of physics remains unclear.

The possibility that physics may eventually accommodate and elucidate the nature of consciousness and associated experience suggests the need to address issues that are currently viewed as being on the borders of physics and philosophy. It also impinges on developments in neurophysics, cognitive science and psychology. So this is an interdisciplinary problem and this conference brings together experts in all the relevant fields. There are contributions from the physicists Bernard Carr, Paul Davies, George Ellis and Lee Smolin, the neurophysicist Alex Gomez-Marin, the cognitive neuroscientist Julia Mossbridge, and the psychologists Jonathan Schooler and Marc Wittmann.

Although the conference is organized by Essentia Foundation—which is associated with the philosophical tradition of Idealism—it covered a wide range of approaches. Our vision is to cover topics that are relevant to Idealism, but not to exclude alternative views from the conference.

Timestamps

00:00 Brief overview
04:20 Bernard Carr – Introduction talk
15:50 George Ellis – There is no way a physical block universe can have come into existence: the future not yet determined!
54:34 Lee Smolin – The role of qualia in temporal naturalism
1:28:46 Bernard Carr – Making space for time and consciousness in physics
2:02:11 Jonathan Schooler – Could postulating three dimension of time address assorted disparities between physics and experience?
2:45:15 Panel discussion

Bernard J. Carr, host and co-organiser of this conference is Professor of mathematics and astronomy at Queen Mary University of London (QMUL)

George F. R. Ellis is emeritus Distinguished Professor of complex systems in the Department of Mathematics and Applied Mathematics at the University of Cape Town in South Africa, this is the paper Ellis presented during the conference: https://arxiv.org/abs/2210.10107

Lee Smolin is faculty member at the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics, and adjunct Professor of physics at the University of Waterloo and a member of the graduate faculty of the philosophy department at the University of Toronto. See this paper on temporal naturalism: https://arxiv.org/abs/1310.8539

Jonathan Schooler is distinguished Professor of Psychological and Brain Sciences at the University of California, Santa Barbara.

Copyright © 2023 by Essentia Foundation. All rights reserved.

Written by Essentia Foundation

Comments

This post currently has 33 comments.

  1. @winstongludovatz111

    October 26, 2024 at 12:36 am

    @52mins: the first speaker seems to say that a physical system dynamics is linear if things move along straight lines!!. Earlier is unaware that Bohmian mechanics explains delayed choice experiments without retrocausal activity from the future (arXiv:1602.06100v1).

  2. @booJay

    October 26, 2024 at 12:36 am

    The biggest problem with Smolin's theory is that he relies on subjective experience to say something about time, which has been proven to be unreliable in so many other (if not all) other aspects of reality. The title of his talk alone reinforces this biased view and he's already shot himself in the foot. Like Daniel Dennett, he thinks something is true because it "feels" that way.

  3. @OneRudeBoy

    October 26, 2024 at 12:36 am

    Isn’t time just a measurement invention of distance and speed rotation relevant to the Earth and Sun? A form of measurement that helps us relate our sleeping patterns, schedules, events, etc. Why do physicists have a hard time understanding time?
    The Ouroboros — Is simply a depiction of our infinite universe… the energy plus matter contained within forever devouring and transforming itself.

  4. @johndunn5272

    October 26, 2024 at 12:36 am

    Using the notion of time if we consider half the expansion of the universe does then this imply a Fourier unfolding of the universe where this is a link between the fourier and the laws.

  5. @KipIngram

    October 26, 2024 at 12:36 am

    Space is not fundamental. COORDINATE time isn't fundamental either. But proper time – the time that defines the sequence of our memories – is fundamental. Our memories come one at a time, and they define a sequence. That is a sort of proper time.

  6. @KipIngram

    October 26, 2024 at 12:36 am

    We don't KNOW that space becomes granular and non-continuous. We are simply unable to observe physical space at scales smaller than that. That's it. Please be careful what words you choose.

  7. @KipIngram

    October 26, 2024 at 12:36 am

    No one has ever seen a tachyon – they've only talked about them. And no one has ever seen a closed timelike curve either.

    Just because our model predicts correct results does not mean that every prediction of our model is valid. There is no traveling into the past, because what MAKES something the past is the formation of memories of it. Once those memories are formed, they're formed and they don't go away.

    I'm not talking about just "our" memories – I'm talking about the memories of Bernardo Kastrup's single universal consciousness – some of which we consciously share, and some of which we unconsciously share.

  8. @KipIngram

    October 26, 2024 at 12:36 am

    "Before the beginning" is an invalid concept – I disagree. Spacetime is simply a coordinate system we invented to allow us to label events. We invented another coordinate system some centuries ago, too – terrestrial latitude and longitude. What's the terrestrial latitude and longitude of Tycho crater on the moon? See? Just because a invented coordinate system doesn't extend to cover something does not mean that something doesn't exist. To say that "before the beginning" is an invalid concept is to assert that spacetime contains all that there is, and that is not necessarily true. It contains all we know of. But with the discovery of entanglement and wormholes we are already starting to see some of spacetime's shortcomings.

    I believe mind is fundamental and "the physical world" is just the set of our perceptions. The ones we can agree on – dreams and hallucinations don't count (though dreams do definitively prove that "mind" can cause us to have perceptions we are happy to label "the physical world"). Our minds are not "within" those perceptions – it's like sitting in a theater and watching a movie. You are not in the movie, and the actions that unfold on screen don't "control you." What happens in spacetime, which is just part of a model we've constructed to model our perceptions, doesn't control our minds, either. We have free will and free ability to think that transcends that. I think our minds, collaboratively, control how quantum possibilities become realized history. And if Kastrup is right, that may include ALL quantum processes, including those we associate with inanimate systems, which would be controlled by the residue of the universal consciousness that is not part of any of our dissociated alters. So, free will is what ultimately causes realized fact to emerge from quantum possibilities.

    So, no one will ever explain "how mind emerges from physical processes," because mind is OUTSIDE of the physical world. Rather, the physical world emerges from the interactions of our minds.

  9. @KipIngram

    October 26, 2024 at 12:36 am

    13:04 – No one ever makes this point as strongly as they should. The idea that "mind is fundamental" outright SOLVES the fine tuning problem. It just makes it go away. It's a simple argument. Minds exist, and they have perceptions that they call "the physical world." It's manifestly necessary that whatever physical world we perceive be one that is compatible with the existence of minds, since minds exist in the first place as a POSTULATE. Problem solved. Next?

  10. @mornnb

    October 26, 2024 at 12:36 am

    I'm not sure why we need to give the universe new properties to explain subjective experience including the subjective experience of the passage of time – is the concept of emergence not enough to make sense of how it may arise out of a neural network system? And why are we surprised that we have yet to figure out the exact working of it, the brain is insanely complicated. The most complicated thing in the known universe.

  11. @piraterockNrollradio

    October 26, 2024 at 12:36 am

    If once something is observed then it's solidified in time what explains the Mandela effect? Millions of people remember Nelson Mandela dying in prison in 1983 but in our reality he lived until 2018 .I am one of the people that remembered him dying I remember my teacher bringing in a TV and there was a parade in his honor. Now more and more there are multiple instances of this sort of thing happening such as there was never a cornucopia on the Fruit of the Loom label but everyone remembers their being one. Or Ed McMahon everyone remembers being the Publishers Clearing House guy but if you look in the record books Publishers Clearing House never had Ed McMahon employed or as a spokesman ever in their records. I would like to know how this is happening on such a mass level to so many millions of people . The only explanation is jumping timelines within our time space continuum or somehow the Multiverse is coming unraveled I don't know..

  12. @Julie-x1s

    October 26, 2024 at 12:36 am

    Live creatures on our planet are intimately and intricately interweaved with the planet's magnetic field and gravity. It is as if they came about by simple organisms feeding on surplus energy produced by rotating planet and evolved to be the same, consumers of surplus energy. Stop the planet- stop the life on it.

  13. @mellison1007

    October 26, 2024 at 12:36 am

    The end point cannot happen if there is no start. There’s no Start point to anything that has an end. Draw a dot for instance on a piece of paper. Simple huh, now imagine the entire universe etc was stored within the dot, then show me where the universe starts and finishes. There is none, urging you have the truth. Human conciousness is the same. So I think that dot could be represented by a singularity. Expansion cannot happen to this as it has no physical size, no distance or time. These are constructs. To give linier structure to a non linier universe. Time is not nature made, it’s a man made construct.

  14. @curiousmind9287

    October 26, 2024 at 12:36 am

    Quantum mechanics and relativity and standard model and big bang all seem to be walking dead. Good for nothing but to impress people and get the next grant. It is almost embarrassing to watch highly intelligent people to waste their lives on praising their respective idols. It feels like we live in some perverted world of transitivity where it was decided that since on occasion some counterintuitive things can be real, anything counterintuitive has to be seriously considered for reality. At the end it becomes a rat race when everybody is engaged into a competition proclaiming the most outrageous phantasy, many of which get funded.

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