Lost Psycho-Technologies: When Our Minds Were At Their Best | John Vervaeke
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In this conversation, cognitive scientist John Vervaeke joins Hans Busstra to examine the historical roots of the modern meaning crisis through the lens of psychotechnologies: culturally developed mental tools and practices that transform how human beings think, perceive and make sense of reality.
Vervaeke describes how psychotechnologies such as shamanism, Socratic dialogue and the Christian notion of agape profoundly shaped Western thought.
More information about John Vervaeke’s and his work:
https://johnvervaeke.com/
https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke
https://x.com/DrJohnVervaeke
Thanks to the OPEN Foundation for facilitating this interview and their recording of Vervaeke’s presentation at ICPR ’26
https://www.open-foundation.org/
https://icpr-conference.com
PART I: Psychotechnologies
0:00 Introduction
3:46 What are psychotechnologies?
6:22 Shamanism: humanity’s first psychotechnology
11:52 Soul flight: wisdom through altered states
15:42 From animism to the axial revolution
20:25 Why humanity invented two worlds
27:03 Socrates, Pythagoras and the birth of philosophy
30:35 How knowledge becomes wisdom
33:31 Jesus, covenant and the transformation of God
42:05 What happened during Jesus’ lost years?
45:09 Agape: the love that creates persons
48:59 Paul and the birth of the divided self
54:20 Paul’s divided self vs eastern awakening
59:58 Being vs becoming: Christianity and the East
1:06:23 When was meaning at its peak?
1:09:39 Plotinus: the Einstein of wisdom
1:16:02 The One, Brahman and the meaning of ‘good’
1:21:05 Is Neoplatonism a form of idealism?
PART II: Mathematics is not reality
1:26:11 How rationality and spirituality split apart
1:31:25 Descartes and the birth of modern rationality
1:32:12 Nominalism: how we became trapped in the mind
1:37:14 The Kantian trap: imprisoned in the mind
1:48:13 Computation: modernity’s psychotechnology
1:53:32 The observer missing from physics
1:55:11 Why cognition is not computation
1:59:06 How do we solve the meaning crisis?
2:07:41 Psychedelics, flow and rebuilding reality
2:17:36 Does Vervaeke practice what he teaches?
PART III: Vervaeke’s Lecture at ICPR
2:21:30 Lecture: from flow to mystical experience
2:22:01 The cognitive continuum
2:23:23 The nine-dot problem and sudden insight
2:26:12 Entropy and the aha moment
2:27:28 Why fluency feels like truth
2:29:55 Relevance realization: finding what matters
2:32:38 Flow states as cascades of insight
2:35:07 Optimal gripping and cognitive trade-offs
2:38:36 Mystical experience as worldview-level flow
2:40:39 Sensibility transcendence and wonder
2:43:51 Audience Q&A
2:47:02 When insight becomes psychosis
© 2026 Essentia Foundation. All rights on interview content reserved.

@Felix-b8z4i
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
Wow,,,and i do mean WoW ! One of the very best conversations in a long month of Sundays. Many thanks to both.
@jeroenblaas5662
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
What a great session. Loved it. Who thought for even one second about beating their hart to even be able to watch it till the end?
@gunterappoldt3037
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
Now, what's the "crisis"? Some short definition would be helpful. Sorry, still can't see the one clear throughline–and even less solution. Well, the old schools also tend to get the more hazy the more they approach the supposedly "ultimate", like the many "(Non-)Szenarios" of Nirwāna in Buddhism.
@gunterappoldt3037
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
Shamanism–like Chinese Wuism–was/is rather ambivalent. The history isn't that simple, not as streamlined as presented, it seems.
@lulaahhaha6556
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
❤
@meganshane8916
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
Been hoping for these worlds to collide! ❤
@faboo3139
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
1 advertising every 5min /:
@wilhelmodendaal7370
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
Brilliant conversation, thank you ! (Please can you have Jim Newman on your show, radical nonduality is a very unique message.)
@johnflatberg5459
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
Thank you Hans and John! I actually made it through all of John’s lectures on the philosophers a few years ago, great work. I loved this interview. Ordered the book.
@jeroentenhoeve1086
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
What an immense beautifull conversation.
I am often thinking to give up watching and listening to YouTube.
But sometimes something as beautifull as this conversation showes up.
And then i come to the realisation that, to find a diamant you have to work through a lot of dirt.
Thank you so much for this unbelievable amazingly beautifull and blindingly bright conversation!!!!!!!!!!👍✌️😘
You realy make each other shine, so much so that i think we can do away with the sun and just let you two commune with eachother and see God immerge out of you…..💥
@RickDelmonico
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
Matter does stuff that doesn't matter to matter. It only matters when life is involved.
Meaning always points to something and if we can't see what it's pointing at, it is indistinguishable from nonsense. Data must be interpreted and it is precisely here that things can go sideways.
@mike66977
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
it is not Shamanism but Yoga – that should be investigated
@bipolargamechanger
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
@1:06:00 this makes it sound like Christianity was to remedy the longstanding belief and misperception that only healthy men were human persons.
@AuroCords
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
Truly a mind expanding talk!
@hanskallafrasonen
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
Such a good discussion and a basically impeccable job by the interviewer. So genuine and authentic and intelligent – really invaluable stuff. At 45:09 though – I was so interested to hear what John was about to say when sort of at a loss for words about something seemingly ineffable about Jesus. In a discussion like this I think even lingering at potentially "awkward" silences is totally unproblematic (assuming Hans' intention was to sustain a "normal" cadence in the interveiw).
@michaelkrammer2417
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
I don't see this clear cut between Plato and Aristotel.
@nerian-x3v
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
The "p" in "psych-" is silent in English.
@williambranch4283
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
Calculator that does real math, with fractions 😉
@conornicholls7854
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
If it's not a thing then why won't you say YHWH's full name out loud, why abbreviate?
@BobbyDigitTICAL
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
Vervaeke is the closest person I have seen explaining the ontology of life and consciousness, and the "why". Most folks just arent literally (same root as literacy) capable of processing it because of the inculcations all modern people go through. Ill read the book but ive already journaled about these concepts for 40 years. Thank you for introducing me to Vervauke.
@BobbyDigitTICAL
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
Wow. I literally just finished writing an essay on Voltaire and how he would handle a meaning crisis. Just in a personal journal. But to have this video pop up in my feed and me watching the entirety of it, im a little speechless.
@TriggerIreland
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
These Essentia thumbnails have become to me a signal to somehow cognitively exhale. Because I know as soon as I press play I'll be inhaling in deep gulps.
Yum.
@ElizabethRaper-k1x
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
Joining this conversation for community and the relations — rational discourse.
@truthwisdomlove7786
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
Excellent talk. Thank you
@sunny.71-v7r
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
Thanks Essentia Foundation for being❤I love you all❤❤❤❤
@HishCrowes
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
Just define rationality as computation implementable on a turing machine
@br0ken42
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
Can We Get Back To The Golden Age Of Memeing? 🤔
@aug.jam.1
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
8:05 would be great to have a psychedelic experience at the same time as these beings. Maybe we can finally communicate
@charlesodonnell2993
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
I held an Aucheulian hand axe also. Similar experience felt.
@novaterra777
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
1.29.49: this hit me like a truck.. Ties into so many other things i read watched listened and thought about before, but now it clicked; the initial spread of a 'Cartesian ontology' throughout the world might just have been an event where we rapidly constructed a powerful egregore that is only just now becoming slightly less dominant. There is so much more to say about all that but it would never fit here, alas. (he changed his mind on certain crucial things not much later, to summarize)
@egreens-mësëtARR2178
August 3, 2026 at 9:39 am
Great presentation throughly discussing dense material 🙂 in comfortable dialog thank Essentia Foundation ~ Hans, John, commenters. Liked, hyped,and shared- even watch all commercials -full length to give 🛫 to the channel, keep up the valuable “good” werks ✨💚🌸🥂🎁😎