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The secret economics of Dungeons & Dragons

Phil Edwards | March 12, 2025



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Written by Phil Edwards

Comments

This post currently has 49 comments.

  1. @jeffh7663

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    It should be noted at some point, the whole space will have a contraction. Even though the player base has expanded, there is still a limit to the target market. There has already been a significant decrease in the number of content creators covering primarily Dungeons and Dragons, but the TTRPG space as well.

  2. @Dreznin

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    Paizo and Critical Role have both been amplified by the blunders of WotC and Hasbro in their mishandling of D&D as a whole. Pathfinder in particular is a case that I found to be delicious in its irony with how it turned out.

    Paizo was a huge player in their ecosystem in the 3/3.5e years, being the publisher of both Dungeon magazine and Dragon magazine, putting out monthly content for players and DMs alike and keeping the customer base engaged with official content after WotC stopped publishing those in-house… then in 2008, WotC decided they didn't want to pay a publisher and would instead go fully digital and self-published, kicking the dedicated spin-off company do the curb. Paizo, having a campaign world and adventure path ready to go, released Rise of the Runelords and introduced the Golarion setting, which they'd turn around and announce as the official world for their Pathfinder setting.

    Wizards thought it would be a good idea to spurn the publisher that had been cranking out monthly content and engaging with their community… and a lot of the community ended up not liking 4e and knew exactly where to go since the content in both Dungeon and Dragon magazines were some of the best quality official content during the 3/3.5e era of D&D.

  3. @RosscoAW

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    Everybody's main takeaway from this should be that intellectual property laws should not apply to creative content created by large corporations that can suffer that short term loss in profit sacrificed to the altar of making a glorious, growing, vibrant, immortal third-party content creation ecosystem. Why would you want to create a walled garden where you control 100% of the revenue for ~5 years of IP relevancy, when you can release your seeds to the winds, and create an entire new, circular ecosystem, that will bring people back to your storefront for literal DECADES to come?

  4. @SynthApprentice

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    30:45 "even though they reversed course and put the OGL in Creative Commons."

    Correction: no version of the Open Gaming License (OGL) was put in Creative Commons. It really wouldn't make any sense to put one open license under another open license. What was put into Creative Commons was a separate document called the System Reference Document (SRD). The SRD is related to the OGL, but they serve very different purposes.

    Arguably, Hasbro never truly reversed the course to revoke OGL 1.0a, the original version of the license. They backpedalled by saying that they'll "leave it alone for now", but a true reversal would be to acknowledge that 1.0a is irrevocable. Their problem is that they want to force everyone to use a version of the license that's less permissible than the original 1.0a, but they can't actually do that while 1.0a is still available.

  5. @MarkHyde

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    The 2023 OGL debacle lit a bomb under tabletop gaming creativity imo. A massive misstep but probably expected from people who treated D&D as IP rather than a game people played in all types of contexts and were attached too – social media can be a huge blessing or a curse as Hasbro is continuing to find out with controversy following controversy since then. Far from restricting 'Dungeons & Dragons' it's meant people comprehend it's THEM that really 'own' their own games. I'm sad I couldn't replay to this sooner. Great video!!

  6. @brockswitzer8074

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    Never thought I’d be watching a Phil Edwards video where he talks about Pardon My Take and Tim Woods. Loved this episode. Felt slightly attacked when he called PMT “frat boy media” but I get it 😂

  7. @grantmillard8387

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    I was a D&D player back when Arneson and Gygax were taking their beige books to gaming stores and clubs and running dungeons to show off the game. We bought sets of books and the later expensions from them and had a great time at the gaming club at Mr. Gameways in Toronto alongside strategy games like Barbarossa and board games like Kingmaker. It was a much simpler time,

    It sounds like Hasbro opened things up with the OGL and then, when the market had gotten going and there were a lot of products and services developed by others, on their own time and dime, Hasbro tried to swoop in and scoop up the profits from the little guys. This has obviously backfired and created an entire new market of D&D copycat products that have skirted Hasbro's license and taken away their leverage.

    They underestimated the power of all those little guys as well as the backlash they would experience from their millions of customers to their decisions.

  8. @c.s.oneill2079

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    Fascinating video. You might be interested in what killed TSR too. In part, it was the lawsuit war they waged on GDW, the creators of Traveller, the first SF RPG. Things became hostile when they branched into each others genres and Gary Gygax wrote for GDW after splitting from TSR.

  9. @autumnson

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    Let's not pretend the OGL changes WotC tried to push were justified. Hasbro and WotC were already making big bucks, but they were greedy. They could have not changed anything and still been fine
    But they were greedy.

  10. @10-OSwords

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    Can anyone recommend any actual play channels as good as Dimension 20? I do not like critical roll & I do not like Mercer. The closest I've seen to d20 would be oxventure, sagas of sundry, desiquest, mystery quest, alt haven-kinda not really as good….Anything that seems like people hanging around playing their own game: NOT interested. I'm looking for a quality SHOW (again, not a hang out) with a good plot, some production value & GOOD actors. Thanks.

  11. @Shamustodd1

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    The OGL opened the playing field. The reason why so many game companies are taking a bigger bite of the pie than hasbro would like is because they are more often than not creating better games. If hasbro wants to get more pie they need to go back to school. The OSR is huge for a reason, people who know better are turning back the clock and going back to D&D's roots. At this moment in time if Hasbro got out of the D&D business it would be better for the game IMHO. I personally don't play todays D&D I play in the OSR. White Box and Swords & Wizardry are my jam these days. Thanks to Matt Finch, James Spahn, and Charlie Mason I can play OD&D without all the hasbro created nonsense.

  12. @yoyodynetoys

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    one the things I think is worth unpacking with these types of hobbyist / businesses taking advantage of the ogl – and that's the notion that in order for anything to be viewed as legitmate, it must be viewed through the lens of capital. Late-Stage capitialism's underlying scaffolding that urges us all to monetize everything. I get that people want to make a living "doing what they love", but I also think this speaks to a larger problem with contemporary culture in general. How, even in our hobbies, we're meant to pursue capital and growth. I understand that for many, commerce must be answered, and I am in total agreement that open culture is crucial, however I am still very much in the camp that resists the idea that passions must be monetized in order for them to be viewed as legitimate.

  13. @Ailieorz

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    This whole OGL drama probably wouldn't have happened if people like Critical Role just paid 'something' for making millions off of WotC IP. That's it. That's the video that no one is making. Instead everyone keeps looking at this multi-million dollar company as 'victims' when the vast majority of players have never even watched a single video. Yeah that's right, most of the people I've played D&D with have never even seen or sometimes heard of Crit Role. They are not the messiahs of D&D that so many try and make them out to be. Hasbro didn't give a shit until other people started making serious money off their stuff. It was never about the influencers, it was about the other corporations

  14. @nyahtonks3914

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    in terms of the OGL scandal, it rly comes down to understanding the audience imo. the actual staff working on dnd were pretty solidly against the move, but the company barreled ahead anyway without understanding why and it came back to bite them. it’s crazy to outwardly become like a hoarding, money hungry entity with little regard for the impact of that when ur core audience spends large amts of their time playing pretend that they r heroes slaying dragons, the epitome of a hoarding and money hungry being. crazy to not foresee the backlash, but that’s the reason u gotta consult ppl with deep understandings of the community

  15. @silver4silver

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    As a person who was there since the 70's and started my ADVENTURE and collection of TSR products of imagination and born and bred in the state of Dave Arneson I can honestly claim most ppl are unable to really define D&D nor really relate to it as TSR once did and somewhat of wotc/Hasbro can!!

    First off D&D economics are crap because of the leeching that has happened due to vagrant license abuse. Too many eggs in the basket cause a dwindling market share for the original content and it basically offers smaller share for the company's profit margins. D&D should have stayed monopolized so polarization from those who aim to profit off someone else's work would be limited to TSR/wotc/Hasbro earnings from contract profits or royalties.

    I find it strange that WOTC offers/ed D&D as OGL when wotc's own IP magic the gathering never had that option. The same could be said about the many IPs Hasbro themselves possess…………………….so what is the reality here!

  16. @MathewCrichton

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    Back in the mid-90s, my friend Ben started up a gaming group with my pals and I using the "TMNT & Other Strangeness" rulebook. 30 years later, and we still connect to talk about and jump into that world and our characters. There are other non-DnD systems out there that have deep roots in the TTRPG community 💪

  17. @connorhennessey1316

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    One thing you missed about the OGL drama were the legal woe's that were unfolding with Ernie Gygax Jr.at the time. He was in a massive legal battle with Hasbro over his blatant copyright and trademark infringement, and was trying to abuse the OGL to claw back as much of his father's IP as he could get. While normally I'm all for the little guy taking on a massive corporation, Ernie was a huge piece of shit (for a variety of reasons) who was really abusing the ideas of the OGL for his personal gain.

  18. @hessanscounty3592

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    34:20 It really is the economics of TTRPGs and not D&D (though I certainly understand feeding the algorithm gods!)

    Though D&D and the D20 system have been the big name for much of this era of roleplay gaming like Disney in entertainment, it has never been the only name out there. I have a channel that has always been devoted to those alternatives, and it is great to see others branch out as well since the OGL debacle.

  19. @mobo7420

    March 12, 2025 at 10:11 pm

    This was very informative, thank you. I recently did a presentation about the business models behind different fantasy games, from Warhammer to D&D (buying books, subscription models, paid game masters). The options have certainly expanded in the last years due to the OGL and online gaming. Though I personally don't play D&D and prefer in-person gaming over online, I find these changes to the hobby fascinating.

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