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Vejas Liulevicius: Communism, Marxism, Nazism, Stalin, Mao, and Hitler | Lex Fridman Podcast #444

Lex Fridman | June 20, 2026



Vejas Liulevicius is a historian specializing in Germany and Eastern Europe, who has lectured extensively on Marxism and the rise, the reign, and the fall of Communism.
Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep444-sb
See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc.

*Transcript:*
https://lexfridman.com/vejas-liulevicius-transcript

*CONTACT LEX:*
*Feedback* – give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey
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*Hiring* – join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring
*Other* – other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact

*EPISODE LINKS:*
Vejas’s Courses: https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/vejas-gabriel-liulevicius
Vejas’s Books: https://amzn.to/4e3R1rz
Vejas’s Audible: https://adbl.co/4esRrHt

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*OUTLINE:*
0:00 – Introduction
3:10 – Marxism
30:55 – Anarchism
45:52 – The Communist Manifesto
54:51 – Communism in the Soviet Union
1:14:45 – Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin
1:24:33 – Stalin
1:31:48 – Holodomor
1:45:38 – The Great Terror
1:58:39 – Totalitarianism
2:09:40 – Response to Darryl Cooper
2:24:49 – Nazis vs Communists in Germany
2:31:11 – Mao
2:36:19 – Great Leap Forward
2:43:20 – China after Mao
2:48:52 – North Korea
2:52:56 – Communism in US
3:00:26 – Russia after Soviet Union
3:11:57 – Advice for Lex
3:19:39 – Book recommendations
3:22:38 – Advice for young people
3:29:29 – Hope

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Written by Lex Fridman

Comments

This post currently has 31 comments.

  1. @lexfridman

    June 20, 2026 at 10:01 am

    Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep444-sa
    See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc.
    0:00 – Introduction
    3:10 – Marxism
    30:55 – Anarchism
    45:52 – The Communist Manifesto
    54:51 – Communism in the Soviet Union
    1:14:45 – Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin
    1:24:33 – Stalin
    1:31:48 – Holodomor
    1:45:38 – The Great Terror
    1:58:39 – Totalitarianism
    2:09:40 – Response to Darryl Cooper
    2:24:49 – Nazis vs Communists in Germany
    2:31:11 – Mao
    2:36:19 – Great Leap Forward
    2:43:20 – China after Mao
    2:48:52 – North Korea
    2:52:56 – Communism in US
    3:00:26 – Russia after Soviet Union
    3:11:57 – Advice for Lex
    3:19:39 – Book recommendations
    3:22:38 – Advice for young people
    3:29:29 – Hope

    Transcript:
    https://lexfridman.com/vejas-liulevicius-transcript

    CONTACT LEX:
    Feedback – give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey
    AMA – submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama
    Hiring – join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring
    Other – other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact

    EPISODE LINKS:
    Vejas's Courses: https://www.thegreatcoursesplus.com/vejas-gabriel-liulevicius
    Vejas's Books: https://amzn.to/4e3R1rz
    Vejas's Audible: https://adbl.co/4esRrHt

    SPONSORS:
    To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts:
    AG1: All-in-one daily nutrition drinks.
    Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/ag1-ep444-sa
    BetterHelp: Online therapy and counseling.
    Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/betterhelp-ep444-sa
    Notion: Note-taking and team collaboration.
    Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/notion-ep444-sa
    LMNT: Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix.
    Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/lmnt-ep444-sa
    Eight Sleep: Temp-controlled smart mattress.
    Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/eight_sleep-ep444-sa

  2. @baurjum4034

    June 20, 2026 at 10:01 am

    Amazing interview! So interesting! I would agree with Lex’s one comment- that there is a pragmatic use of utopian communist ideals to lie to population, specifically youth, by dictators to gain power/stay in power. Considering that communist parties had negative selection at their core – worst of the worst would come to position of leadership – hypocritical lying bloody dictators which would do anything for power.

  3. @jimfreeburn5560

    June 20, 2026 at 10:01 am

    This is an incredible interview. What a gift.

    The handling of Darryl Cooper’s critique is facile and superficial

    This is an emotional topic for Lex. Understandable.

    To fail to explore the mishandling of diplomacy and leadership by the western powers in both world wars will surely guarantee that we find ourselves there again.

    Hitler does not come to power without the decisions of Western government officials, banking and Western business interests, and other leaders of civilization.

    Demonizing Hitler, while morally understandable, is a time honored abnegation of personal responsibility by people like Churchill and many of the elite.

    This mindset is bringing us World War III totally predictable

    History repeats itself. First as a tragedy, and then as a farce.

  4. @magicpinkhorse

    June 20, 2026 at 10:01 am

    Verelendung (Immiseration) is quite accurate to what the majority of people seem to feel today, especially in the U.S. of all places. Enshittification of products is the clearest parallel, but the unaffordability of housing and mass layoffs due to automation are another.

    So it's not like this prediction wasn't correct – it's more that it took time to reach "late-stage capitalism" and there are more solutions to it than just murdering every wealthy person.

  5. @ironwolf692

    June 20, 2026 at 10:01 am

    Sharing a good example of Lenin’s mindset. During the early Russian famine, the USA sent 250 ships full of food and medicine. At the same time Lenin wrote to his Politburo,
    [ This convenient famine is now our perfect weapon against the church ]

  6. @KJB_Sword

    June 20, 2026 at 10:01 am

    To anyone reading..Are You Saved? Have you received what Jesus Christ did for you?

    This question should receive a “Yes” or “No” answer, but it almost never does. Some of the most common responses are:
    I’m doing the best I can.
    I prayed the sinner’s prayer.
    I’ve made Jesus the Lord of my life.
    I believe in God.
    I’ve been baptized.
    I’m a church member.
    I keep the commandments.
    I am basically a good person.
    I walked the aisle and prayed through.
    I’ve always been a Christian.
    I’ve never done anything really bad.

    None of these responses properly answer the question. People give these kinds of responses because they evidently do not understand the question. The question, “Are you saved?” asks whether or not you have trusted Christ’s shed blood on the cross as payment for your sins. It is not asking about any works that you can do.

    The responses listed above refer to what a person does, but salvation is only offered on the basis of what Christ has already done for us.

    The gospel of our salvation (Eph. 1:13) is clearly stated by the apostle Paul:

    3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

    4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. (1 Cor. 15:3-4)

    The blood of Christ has purchased what we could not earn ourselves.

    In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: (Col. 1:14)

    We cannot be good enough to earn salvation because “there is none righteous” (Rom. 3:10) and “all have sinned” (Rom. 3:23). The “wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23). Those who die lost will spend eternity in “the lake of fire” (Rev. 20:15).

    In order to be saved, we must stop trusting ourselves and trust the blood payment that Christ has already made on our behalf!

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph. 2:8-9)

    Jesus Christ fully accomplished our salvation through His death, burial, and resurrection. Therefore, the free gift of salvation can only be received by faith alone in His finished work. It is Christ's righteousness not ours.

    "To declare, I day, at this time HIS (Christ) righteousness: that HE might be the just and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus" Rom 3:26

    NOT by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to HIS MERCY He saved us (Titus 3:5)

    Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (Rom. 5:1)

    "IN whom we HAVE redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of HIS GRACE" Eph 1:7

    If you will trust Jesus Christ as your Saviour, you will receive peace with God, justification, forgiveness, eternal life in the heavenly places. You can enjoy “much assurance” (1 Thess. 1:5) that you are saved and on your way to heaven because (Eph 1:13-14) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise. Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    Jesus accomplished the work involved for your salvation, by faith rest in HIS finished work.

  7. @sandramartin254

    June 20, 2026 at 10:01 am

    🎙️ This is an exceptional conversation.
    In this episode, the guest explains how authoritarian regimes like Stalin’s, Mao’s, and the Nazis systematically weakened education, critical thinking, and social cohesion because a population that can’t question power is easier to control. It’s a powerful reminder that when a society lowers standards or discourages excellence, it risks repeating the same patterns that allowed destructive ideologies to rise in the past.

    Ask yourself which places today are participating in their own decline (I left Seattle for Texas exactly for this reason. It seems In & Out Burger has moved their headquarters out of California also for this reason and thousands of other examples. Look at the unrest in the UK, look at the degradation of Frankfurt and other cities – they all have something in common politically. Look at the EU sanctioning its own people including journalists). Ask yourself where we see the push to eliminate advanced classes because they’re deemed “unfair,” where rising crime goes unchecked, where open drug use is normalized, and where basic law and order is eroding. These patterns don’t appear all at once, they build slowly, and ignoring them has consequences.

  8. @kartheekvijay2250

    June 20, 2026 at 10:01 am

    Ukraine isn't the only area affected by famine but kulaks had major role which is covered up by these people. Why would anyone falsify statistics up and down and for whose benefit? Why isn't USSR no.1 economy then? God 😢these western historians or academia spread lies about USSR

  9. @goyawakening

    June 20, 2026 at 10:01 am

    Zionist apologist. Stop carrying water for these criminals. But with a last name like Friedman, it all makes sense now. Fascism was a response to Jewish Bolshevism, globalism. Jews believe that we, gentiles, goyim, are to be subject to their whims, enslaved, killed if insubordinate. Everything the Israelis say about Nazism (it’s brutal genocidal exceptionalism), is exactly congruent with their own foreign policy towards every other country in this world. They truly believe they are the master race and permitted by God to commit whatever atrocities they see fit in furtherance of their global pursuit of absolute incontestable power. Germans and many other Europeans witnessed what those Jews in power in the Soviet Union were doing to white Christian Slavs and Ukrainians after they took power during the “Russian revolution” (communist Jewish uprising). They knew that the only way to combat this Jewish supremacist globalist world order was to be as nationalist as possible, in order to protect the futures of their progeny and cultures. Here you sit on this bullshit podcast DEFENDING the destruction of Europe, idolizing Marx and continuing the lies you were indoctrinated in your childhood with. Look at all of the problems around us, the racism, greed, desperation, the brutal foreign wars committed by America, the poverty, sickness, censorship, degradation of our society, it’s all as a result of Zionist Supremacist elements that have held power in our country for decades if not centuries. They OWN both sides as clearly evidenced by the Epstein Files, and thats just ONE blackmail ring. The republicans, democrats, are ALL compromised and can NOT be trusted. It seems at every opportunity they take as much from us as possible. We could have a country that loves itself and respects others, has free healthcare, free college, employment, affordable housing, a proper retirement system, benefits for the young and old alike. But that is too NATIONALISTIC and SOCIALISTIC. Two things Jews absolutely revile in ANY country. You can be socialist, yes! Only if you are “globalistic”. If you want for your country what ISRAEL HAS… oohhhhh no.. YOU are a fucking NAZI and deserve death. BOYCOTT ISRAEL, AMERICA FIRST!

  10. @eyekone

    June 20, 2026 at 10:01 am

    I find it odd that this person talks about Marx's work maneuvering away from the basic concepts of private property and the relationship between employer and employee. Even when talking about historical dialectic and materialism, it's really a disservice presenting Marx work as merely utopian, when putting a magnifying glass on the material conditions as the substrate of thought has been one of the most significant contributions to human knowledge

  11. @shahramrezaei3742

    June 20, 2026 at 10:01 am

    Hi Lex, Thanks for sharing it. Realy informative. However, in the middle, you showed a picture of one of the cp Congress's. Introducing them as Stalin, Lenin, and Trotsky. The one on right is not Leon trotsky, he is Michael kalinin.

  12. @kelstad

    June 20, 2026 at 10:01 am

    German sources are only full of the usual medieval racist non-sense. Yes, they've thought of themselves as Spartans who get to rule over their neighbours the Slavs as slaves, but the Nazis didn't invent the English language, did they?

    They have only been the worst, because the German Empire was so high-tech. Planck, Einstein, Heisenberg, Schrödinger and the guys at Heidelberg pretty much discovered quantum physics on their own… because of precise engineering.

    Summary: outstanding work that shows a deep understanding indeed, apart from the anti German racist ramblings, that is because they were not the first Catholics that called for a witch hunt against the Jews. There is a BBC documentary on: 1913: When Hitler, Trotsky, Tito, Freud and Stalin all lived in the same place (Vienna) that dwells on the matter, that Europe's most powerful family was about to fall. The world was about to change and Vienna knew it. Plus, we hosted great economists, mathematicians and all, when our "golden era under terrible conditions" came to an end. This city is a museum and German is being forgotten like Latin.

  13. @tommcgowan1589

    June 20, 2026 at 10:01 am

    So many people in the public square that orate are just not articulate. This man is just so listenable. How does America get a leader who just cannot articulate a single coherent thought.

  14. @brian78045

    June 20, 2026 at 10:01 am

    The essence of communism is to advance "The Struggle", "The Struggle" entailing Karl Marx's 1843 directive to implement the "abolition of religion", and the destruction of those civilizations "whose spiritual aroma is religion".* Soon after transferring university from Bonn to Berlin, the young Karl Marx, up until then a warm-hearted Lutheran, ended up waging a war against God, because he accepted as true the Lutheran belief that his libertine behavior in Berlin consigned him to Hell. So Marx concocted a materialist philosophy based on a tautological foundation to wage war against God and humanity, as the following poems identify:

    "Thus Heaven I've forfeited, I know it full well, My soul, once true to God, Is chosen for hell." — The Pale Maiden (poem).

    Google: Early works of Karl Marx: boob of verse The Pale Maiden

    …and…

    "With disdain I will throw my gauntlet Full in the face of the world, And see the collapse of this pygmy giant Whose fall will not stifle my ardour. Then will I wander godlike and victorious Through the ruins of the world And, giving my words an active force, I will feel equal to the Creator." — Human Pride (poem).

    Google: Early Works of Karl Marx: Book of Verse human pride poem

    Marx's Foundational Tautology

    Marx writes (Chapter 24, first paragraph, Capital, 1867), "Hitherto we have investigated how surplus-value emanates from capital; we have now to see how capital arises from surplus-value." See the tautology? Surplus value and capital are the same thing! How did this tautology get past the initial reviews? How did this tautology survive the intervening 158 years without being discovered, except for this political scientist? This again illustrates the magnitude of the Marxist co-option of our institutions.

    Marx recognizes the tautology (using diversion to hide the tautology by calling it a "vicious circle"), and, as usual with other self-imploding observations, erects a non-defense defense:**

    "Chapter Twenty-Six: The Secret of Primitive Accumulation We have seen how money is changed into capital; how through capital surplus-value is made, and from surplus-value more capital. But the accumulation of capital presupposes surplus-value; surplus-value presupposes capitalistic production; capitalistic production presupposes the pre-existence of considerable masses of capital and of labour power in the hands of producers of commodities. The whole movement, therefore, seems to turn in a vicious circle, out of which we can only get by supposing a primitive accumulation (previous accumulation of Adam Smith) preceding capitalistic accumulation; an accumulation not the result of the capitalistic mode of production, but its starting point."

    Marx's solution to his tautology is to tell us that the Capitalist mode of production commenced by "supposing"! Marx magically creates a primitive accumulation of capital base upon which the capitalist mode of production flowered from, but this "supposing" primitive accumulation of capital doesn't solve the tautology, it merely pushes the tautology further back in time. According to Marx, In order to have capital one needs surplus value ("capital arises from surplus value"), but surplus value can't exist without first capital existing ("surplus value emanates from capital")! Pushing back a tautology to an earlier time period doesn't solve the tautology. Nothing can.

    In Capital, Marx begins his analysis with an already existing capitalist economy. Marx can't explain how the capitalist economy came into existence because such an economy couldn't come into existence according to Marx's peculiar analysis of the capitalist economy where surplus-value created capital must first exist, but since surplus-value doesn't exist yet, there can be no capital to begin the capitalist economy. To overcome this inherent contradiction in Marx's "investigation", he begins Capital where we find an already existing capitalist economy:

    “The wealth of those societies in which the capitalist mode of production prevails, presents itself as “an immense accumulation of commodities," its unit being a single commodity. Our investigation must therefore begin with the analysis of a commodity.”
    ==================
    * Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right, Karl Marx (1843)

    "The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion."

    …and…

    "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions."

    …and…

    "It is, therefore, the task of history, once the other-world of truth has vanished, to establish the truth of this world."

    ** Marx was stuck on a key point of his 'economics', so to save the day Engels informs readers in the Preface to Capital, Volume II (1885) that Marx came up with what would later be known as the 'Prize Essay Competition', a subterfuge for the purpose of coming up with a solution that evaded Marx, namely a solution that reconciled the labor theory of value with prices [see: ADDENDUM]. We're told no one solved the problem, but the fact there was such a program proves Marx couldn't figure out a solution. This is why the third volume of Capital was delayed for nine years (1894) after the publication of Volume II, instead of the month's delay that was promised:

    "2. According to the Ricardian law of value, two capitals employing equal quantities of equally paid living labour all other conditions being equal, produce commodities of equal value and likewise surplus-value, or profit, of equal quantity in equal periods of time. But if they employ unequal quantities of living labour, they cannot produce equal surplus-values, or, as the Ricardians say, equal profits. Now in reality the opposite takes place. In actual fact, equal capitals, regardless of how much or how little living labour is employed by them, produce equal average profits in equal times. Here there is therefore a contradiction of the law of value which had been noticed by Ricardo himself, but which his school also was unable to reconcile. Rodbertus likewise could not but note this contradiction. But instead of resolving it, he made it one of the starting-points of his utopia. (Zur Erkenntnis, p. 131.) Marx had resolved this contradiction already in the manuscript of his Zur Kritik. According to the plan of Capital, this solution will be provided in Book III. Months will pass before that will be published. Hence those economists who claim to have discovered in Rodbertus the secret source and a superior predecessor of Marx have now an opportunity to demonstrate what the economics of a Rodbertus can accomplish. If they can show in which way an equal average rate of profit can and must come about, not only without a violation of the law of value, but on the very basis of it, I am willing to discuss the matter further with them. In the meantime they had better make haste. The brilliant investigations of the present Book II and their entirely new results in fields hitherto almost untrod are merely introductory to the contents of Book III, which develops the final conclusions of Marx’s analysis of the process of social reproduction on a capitalist basis. When this Book III appears, little mention will be made of the economist called Rodbertus."

    Google: capital volume ll pdf

    Engels says, "According to the plan of Capital, this solution will be provided in Book III. Months will pass before that will be published." If months, then the manuscript for Book III is near complete, and wouldn't take another nine-years to publish, let alone nine-months, if the "contradiction" had been solved.

    ADDENDUM

    Marx's 'discovery' entailed the equalization of rates of profit for all companies within a particular industry. Those companies with more labor would have higher surplus value, and those with less labor would have less surplus value, but competition for capital, Marx says, drives surplus value up or down (depending on the capital to labor ratios), so that the industry has a standard rate of profit. Those companies within a particular industry with relatively more labor than capital, hence more surplus value (profit), have higher prices, so capital moves out of these industries for those industries with lower prices due to their having relatively less labor than capital; capital seeks profit, and there is greater potential profit to be earned in the latter category of companies. Of course, there's a problem with this clever jerry-rigging too…nowhere, at no time, have we witnessed, before the equalization for capital sets in, a company with more labor than average for a particular industry obtain higher profits than those companies with less labor than average. That's why competition for capital in the real world witnesses capital flowing in the opposite direction before the equalization of profits takes place.

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