Iran War Debate: Nuclear Weapons, Trump, Peace, Power & the Middle East | Lex Fridman Podcast #473
Debate on Iran war between Scott Horton and Mark Dubowitz. Scott Horton is the author and director of the Libertarian Institute, editorial director of Antiwar.com, host of The Scott Horton Show, and for the past three decades, a staunch critic of U.S. foreign policy and military interventionism. Mark Dubowitz is the chief executive of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, host of the Iran Breakdown podcast, and a leading expert on Iran and its nuclear program for over 20 years. This debate was recorded on Tuesday, June 24, after the Iran-Israel ceasefire was declared.
Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep473-sb
See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc.
*Transcript:*
https://lexfridman.com/iran-israel-debate-transcript
*CONTACT LEX:*
*Feedback* – give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey
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*Other* – other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact
*EPISODE LINKS:*
Mark’s X: https://x.com/mdubowitz
Mark’s Podcast: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmEsAFBNkqsMQnt5pypwEX0ul0NyIjd3E
The Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD): https://www.fdd.org/
Scott’s X: https://x.com/scotthortonshow
Scott’s YouTube: https://youtube.com/@scotthortonshow
Scott’s Podcast: https://www.scotthortonshow.com/
Scott’s Website: https://scotthorton.org/
Scott’s Books: https://amzn.to/3T9Qg7y
The Libertarian Institute: https://libertarianinstitute.org/
Antiwar.com: https://antiwar.com/
*SPONSORS:*
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*OUTLINE:*
0:00 – Episode highlight
1:15 – Introduction
2:18 – Iran-Israel War
11:00 – Iran’s Nuclear Program
42:52 – Nuclear weapons and uranium
54:55 – Nuclear deal
1:20:29 – Iran Nuclear Archive
1:43:06 – Best case and worst case near-term future
2:18:30 – US attack on Iran – Operation Midnight Hammer
2:42:04 – Nuclear proliferation in the future
3:03:02 – Libertarianism
3:15:51 – Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD)
3:31:26 – Trump and Peacemaking process
3:36:23 – WW2
3:49:23 – WW3
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@lexfridman
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep473-sa
See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc.
0:00 – Episode highlight
1:15 – Introduction
2:18 – Iran-Israel War
11:00 – Iran's Nuclear Program
42:52 – Nuclear weapons and uranium
54:55 – Nuclear deal
1:20:29 – Iran Nuclear Archive
1:43:06 – Best case and worst case near-term future
2:18:30 – US attack on Iran – Operation Midnight Hammer
2:42:04 – Nuclear proliferation in the future
3:03:02 – Libertarianism
3:15:51 – Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD)
3:31:26 – Trump and Peacemaking process
3:36:23 – WW2
3:49:23 – WW3
Transcript:
https://lexfridman.com/iran-israel-debate-transcript
CONTACT LEX:
Feedback – give feedback to Lex: https://lexfridman.com/survey
AMA – submit questions, videos or call-in: https://lexfridman.com/ama
Hiring – join our team: https://lexfridman.com/hiring
Other – other ways to get in touch: https://lexfridman.com/contact
EPISODE LINKS:
Mark's X: https://x.com/mdubowitz
Mark's Podcast: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmEsAFBNkqsMQnt5pypwEX0ul0NyIjd3E
The Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD): https://www.fdd.org/
Scott's X: https://x.com/scotthortonshow
Scott's YouTube: https://youtube.com/@scotthortonshow
Scott's Podcast: https://www.scotthortonshow.com/
Scott's Website: https://scotthorton.org/
Scott's Books: https://amzn.to/3T9Qg7y
The Libertarian Institute: https://libertarianinstitute.org/
Antiwar.com: https://antiwar.com/
SPONSORS:
To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts:
Hampton: Community for high-growth founders and CEOs.
Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/hampton-ep473-sa
Notion: Note-taking and team collaboration.
Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/notion-ep473-sa
Shopify: Sell stuff online.
Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/shopify-ep473-sa
Oracle: Cloud infrastructure.
Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/oracle-ep473-sa
LMNT: Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix.
Go to https://lexfridman.com/s/lmnt-ep473-sa
@PlayLikeABotYT
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
This podcast reminds us how biased people trump gov work with.
All of them have baisness.
If they don't have biasness, they can't work there.
@ronnie1638
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
Scott is the only American in that video
@ronnie1638
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
I’m just here for Scott Horton … this other guy is so brainwashed by Israel!!!
@ronnie1638
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
Lex was quick to shut Scott up about the major Zionists donors and their influence…. Very problematic… fuck Jewish lex
@jackstrohecker1406
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
Hmm… The comments about the missing hour got deleted. I saw some yesterday about it and they seem to be gone 🤔
@theorin47
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
Lex lost some respect today
@Baba.Chamkega
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
When you speak the truth. You dont neee fancy suits and badges.
@thewastedwanderer5787
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
In a debate, I always trust the person who can actually make eye contact with their adversary, the most, and all I know about this debate for a certain fact is that Scott was able to hold eye contact a lot more
@SheriffWalrus
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
omg Mark is completely unprepared. Right at the opening statements, Scott says "Yeah they're keeping the ability to create nukes as a deterrent" then Mark just continues his script as if Scott were pretending they were just making civilian energy lol
@Justin-fz9hf
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
The Jews are losing so hard, soon they will be completely kicked out of everywhere LMAO
@sebastiensoucy4169
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
Israel is the best ally the U.S. can have? That's hilarious… where the fuck were they from 9/11 – last I checked it was the U.S.'s previous #1 trade partner, the ones who sell 65% of the U.S.'s oil demands to them, for quite literal pennies on the dollar instead of the 100 trillion per year at market price, and who volunteered on day 1 of 9/11 to send our own squirrels and ninjas to lawdart into the desert, all while volunteering to hold the hornet's nest province and A.O. – the true #1 ally of the states, which is north of them.
None of us saw Israel at any of the gulf wars, or the one further east in Pashto, Uzbek, and Tajik lands… not 1 IDF. But of course… Israel is the best ally, they who the states barely trade with, and subsidizes more than any other country lol 😂🤦♂️
The two above need to redo their education from scratch.
@24theRiver
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
What a beat down, kick rocks Mark
@AschenJim
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
Lex ain’t beating the Mossad allegations anytime soon. Shameful and unamerican.
@Justin-fz9hf
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
Leave it to lying jewboi Lex to edit out criticism… podcast is completely run by mosad 😂
@faresmhaya
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
Mark keeps constantly accusing Scott of constantly painting the US as the bad guy as if it's telling of some bias, but he must see how silly that accusation is when he's practically the polar opposite of him, mainly painting the Iranians as the bad guys. It's a needless point to make in such a debate.
@Tra_T10
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
HEY MARK HOW ABOUT YOU GO IT ALONE YOU GUYS ARE BIG BOYS 🤷🏾♂️🤦🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
@Tra_T10
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
SHOW US THE EVIDENCE OF THIS MEETING MARK 2:55:40🤷🏾♂️🤦🏾
@Tra_T10
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
MARK ( LIES ALL OVER YOUR FOREHEAD) 🤷🏾♂️🤦🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
@Tra_T10
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
EXACTLY SCOTT CALL THEM OUT (WE) THATS RIGHT SCOTT THE UNITED STATES YOU WANNA USE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
@Tra_T10
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
THIS WHOLE INTERVIEW IS A BUNCH OF BULLYING GOING ON. YALL SOFT ON YALL OWN
@Tra_T10
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
MARK 🤦🏾 Damn PURE EVIL 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
@Tra_T10
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
THE UNITED STATES BEEN WRONG SINCE VIETNAM War 🤷🏾♂️🤦🏾 Sorry and the Israeli government been using our government 🤷🏾♂️🤦🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
@Tra_T10
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
MARK WE SEE STRAIGHT THROUGH ISREAL LIES AND BULLYING 🤷🏾♂️ JUST DO RIGHT BY THE ALMIGHTY 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
@Tra_T10
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
HIS HISTORY AS IF WE DONT HAVE COMMON SENSE 🤷🏾♂️
@Tra_T10
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
WARMONGER MARK🤷🏾♂️🤦🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
@Tra_T10
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
Again MARK HOW YOU GONNA TELL IRAN HOW TO MOVE! THE NERVE OF YOU (GROUP OF BULLIES)🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
@Tra_T10
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
THE BULLYING IS SAD! THANKS SCOTT THE WORLD SEES RIGHT THROUGH THESE LIES! IRANIAN PEOPLE WERE AFRAID WHEN WE INVADED IRAQ🤷🏾♂️🤦🏾 THIS IS SAD THANKS AGAIN SCOTT 💯💪🏾 MARK YOUR PROPAGANDA AINT WORKING ITS MAKING ISREAL AND THE US LOOKING BAD🤷🏾♂️🤦🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾 TO THE ALMIGHTY THANKS FOR ALLOWING THE WORLD TO SEE🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
@kevinwalker5018
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
As far as I'm concerned, it's just more evidence of a fifth column inside the country, as if we needed more evidence. Some of the details I learned from Scott were helpful, though.
@dayone567
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
We still want the missing hour
@kasra82
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
The part where mark says “these are the aggressors” but in reality THE aggressor is America
@joemills6243
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
I want to thank Mark for remembering our hostages that were taken from the American embassy in 1979 we can not forget that Iran can't be trusted in anything they say or do this Scott guy is to young to even remember half of the things that Iran has done over the last 50 yrs you can't trust them with to have nuclear weapons they are governed by a religious zealot who doesn't care who he harms
@vozkaa
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
Pretty interesting how in other online discussions people mostly at best say that Horton is obviously very educated and they agree with some of his opinions but he demonstrates conspiratorial thinking and is unable to lead a normal discussion, whereas youtube discussion is apparently full of his superfans. I wonder why that is.
I can understand people disagreeing with Fridman and especially with Dubowitz, but saying that Horton clearly won this debate and smoked them both has to be bait.
@johnweigand30
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
Double talk on %. Simply to confuse. 60% is lowest weapons grade
@johnweigand30
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
Dick Chaney😡
@johnweigand30
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
And IRAN was the goal from 2001 and even before.
@bn8418
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
As an Iranian, the dude on the left with bread has no idea what types of creatures he is taking sides with. He needs to get over his – oppressor – victim lens of viewing this situation and go live under the iranian regime for a month ( with his wife – crucial) then come back and run his mouth if he dares. Idiots using people's lives to virtue signal without having done their homework, shameful and disgusting.
@MISTERASMODEUS
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
This is Empire propaganda. Mark is not an honest debater. He makes his career selling war and pretending there is an intellectual basis for it. Its all bullshit. Its based on false assumptions. These are fake conversations.
@kennethflo
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
If a person believes the U.S. is tyrannical, imperialistic, abusive, deceptive, myopic, pugilistic, etc–in general, a bad place to live–then why doesn't said person move to a country they believe will come out on the right side of history? If one thinks Atlantis (or any other country) has got policy and human rights down pat, then they should move there and be proud of their adopted homeland. Call me crazy, I think we've got it pretty good here. Doesn't mean we're perfect, but there's a reason so many people want to come here.
@DARTHXE0N
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
Mark is an absolute ass kisser to who ever provides him a check. Lex should've asked about the epstein list and the dangers of overlearning bias.
@SalvatorB23
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
Definitely not a guy who gives a damn about fly over america. That dude is israel first all the way. Scott was right to call that out and Lex is wrong to claim the personal attack is unwarranted. It’s unwarranted to try so hard to pull us into wars that are completely against our interests.
@bencubus1814
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
Post the full debate!
@petiehernande8630
August 7, 2025 at 1:56 pm
The debate is edited. Wack
Comments are closed.