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The art of argument | Jordan Peterson | Big Think

Big Think | August 2, 2025



The art of argument
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Do you really want to win an argument, or do you want to find mutual ground and understanding? Canadian psychologist and author Jordan Peterson feels that in most cases it’s the latter. It might take some getting used to, he posits, as acquiescence by its very nature means admitting that you’re wrong in some way. Jordan’s latest book is 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos.
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JORDAN PETERSON:

Jordan B. Peterson, raised and toughened in the frigid wastelands of Northern Alberta, has flown a hammer-head roll in a carbon-fiber stunt-plane, explored an Arizona meteorite crater with astronauts, and built a Kwagu’l ceremonial bighouse on the upper floor of his Toronto home after being invited into and named by that Canadian First Nation. He’s taught mythology to lawyers, doctors and business people, consulted for the UN Secretary General, helped his clinical clients manage depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, anxiety, and schizophrenia, served as an adviser to senior partners of major Canadian law firms, and lectured extensively in North America and Europe. With his students and colleagues at Harvard and the University of Toronto, Dr. Peterson has published over a hundred scientific papers, transforming the modern understanding of personality, while his book Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief revolutionized the psychology of religion. His latest book is 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos.
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TRANSCRIPT:

Jordan Peterson: So how do you deal with situations where your words are likely to be used out of context, let’s say.

And that’s a situation I’ve encountered. Well, you see, you encounter a situation like that very frequently. Everyone does in their life. If you’re having a discussion with someone you live with, for example, so someone you have to be with for a long time – a lover, boyfriend, girlfriend, wife, husband—sibling for that matter. You’re going to have contentious discussions about how to move forward and it’s very frequently the case that your words will be – that you’ll be straw-manned. Your words will be taken out of context.

The other person (and you too!) will try to win instead of trying to solve the problem. What you have to kind of decide is – well two things. The first thing is: you’re probably wrong in some important way. And you might think “Well, so what?” But no, it’s not so simple. Being wrong in some important way is like having a map that doesn’t correspond to the streets.

If you’re wrong in some important way, when you go to where you’re going you will get lost and you might end up in a neighborhood that you don’t want to visit! So it actually matters if you’re wrong.

And so now if you’re talking to someone who is acting in opposition to you, it’s possible that during your contentious discussion they will tell you something—about how you’re wrong—that’s accurate. Now you’re not going to be very happy about that, because like who wants to discover that they’re wrong?

But it’s better to figure out that your map is inaccurate than it is to get lost.

And so one of the things you have to remember when you’re discussing things with people, even if they’re out to defeat you, let’s say, is that there is some glimmering of the possibility that you could walk away with more knowledge than you walked in with.

And that’s worth – that can be worth paying quite a price for.

And so I’ve had the opportunity to engage in public debate of an exceptionally contentious nature for let’s say 18 months nonstop, fundamentally. And it’s been very stressful. But the upshot of that is that my arguments are in much better shape than they were, and—I shouldn’t say that. My THOUGHTS are much more refined than they were at the beginning of this process. It’s not my arguments are in better shape. That’s not the right way to think about it.

It’s that I’m clearer about what I know. I can articulate it better. And that’s all forged in the heat of conflict.

If you’re discussing a contentious issue with someone you love and that you have to live with and put up with, you want to listen to them. Because what you really want to do is establish a lasting peace, and you might even have to make their arguments for them. Maybe you’re more verbally fluent than your partner (which doesn’t mean, by the way, that you’re more right, it just means you can construct better arguments on the fly. It doesn’t …

For the full transcript, check out https://bigthink.com/videos/jordan-peterson-why-winning-isnt-the-real-purpose-of-arguing

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Comments

This post currently has 23 comments.

  3. @rue883

    August 2, 2025 at 10:04 pm

    If you want to win an argument, just do what the daily wire does, call your opponent anti-Semitic, and if your opponent is Candace Owen, fire her…

  4. @jackdonovan554

    August 2, 2025 at 10:04 pm

    It's interesting how debate is simply a competition of arguements. I wonder if it was possible to debate in the manner of providing solutions. But that would require the desire to find good solutions and not just "winning", so nevermind.
    Our leaders debate to win and look where we are.

  5. @bienzelynalquiza6086

    August 2, 2025 at 10:04 pm

    Don't loose your hope sur Peterson. It's not your fault. We're all victims of lies due to the cursed weed had inherited from our ancestors. The Best justice is the TRUE WISDOM written in the BIBLE. And because no one seemed exposed it and not taught correctly due to the hidden knowledge left to us but we're hidden for a centuries ago. We're all subjected to questionable. And that no one is perfect. But if you care to know more about the TRUE TEACHINGS written in the BIBLE. Please connect to our IGLESIA NI CRISTO church nearest to you. It will be explained well. When you think this happenings nowadays confused our mental percepts . Thus, many of us got misleaded. But for now, if they accused you, of ❤your shortcomings. If they're perfect they can put you to jail. Nobody is perfect!!!!! That's why everyone needs guidance in order to know the TRUTH. Which you found in an IGLESIA NI CRISTO.

  6. @shreeabraham

    August 2, 2025 at 10:04 pm

    🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:

    00:05 🗣️ Dealing with Misunderstandings
    – In discussions, words can be taken out of context, leading to straw-man arguments.
    – Being wrong in an important way is akin to having an inaccurate map; it matters for navigating life.
    – Even in contentious discussions, there's a chance to gain knowledge and refine thoughts.
    01:56 🤔 Benefits of Contentious Debate
    – Engaging in public debate, even of a contentious nature, refines thoughts and enhances clarity.
    – Stressful situations can lead to improved articulation and understanding of personal thoughts.
    – The heat of conflict can forge a deeper understanding of one's own arguments.
    03:21 🤝 Strategies for Constructive Discussions
    – Winning an argument with a partner, especially a long-term one, is not advisable; aim for a mutually acceptable settlement.
    – Listening, understanding, and helping formulate your partner's arguments contribute to lasting peace.
    – Avoiding a defeated partner is crucial for a harmonious relationship.
    05:10 📚 Teaching the Art of Argument
    – Teaching argumentation by assigning arbitrary positions widens conceptualizations of contentious issues.
    – Complex issues like gun control and abortion require familiarity with diverse arguments for a nuanced perspective.
    – Educators play a role in teaching how to think, not what to think, fostering analytical skills.

  7. @benjamink.1970

    August 2, 2025 at 10:04 pm

    He changed my life. I do deeply respect this man. Buuut… he said "Guns kill people." I cringed… I would replace "Guns kill people" with "Guns are dangerous" or "Guns are effective Weapons" or.

  9. @h0olaman

    August 2, 2025 at 10:04 pm

    This video is 5 years old at the time I'm writing this. How I wish people would listen to what Jordan Peterson is actually saying. I know of very few people who get taken so excessively out of context as he is. I just watched a new video from Big Think which was posted five days ago, where Bo Seo is talking about the art of debate. It was fascinating to hear him explain the way he listens in a debate. It was exactly what Jordan Peterson taught in one of his lectures (either Harvard or Toronto, I can't remember) when teaching his students about Carl Rogers' approach to listening for his school of Psychotherapy called Client-Centered or Client-Based therapy.

  11. @mclarenjoao1049

    August 2, 2025 at 10:04 pm

    A man who knows so much about logical fallacies and sound arguments, seems to completely shutdown or forsake this ability when talking to the likes of Sam Harris…

Comments are closed.

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